Kaya Vasanthan Ramesh – Ambitious, Creative, Connected
My idea of styling a home so far has just been me pinning random things on Pinterest. Although I live with my parents for now, I do have elaborate boards and fantasies about how I would like for my home to look someday. But I had no idea of what it was that I wanted exactly. Or if I did magically end up with a home tomorrow, I probably wouldn’t even know where to begin. The paint, probably? That was until I saw Kaya’s Instagram feed and thought “Yes please, that”. Not that I want her to replicate a concept she has done before for my home, but that something about her feed made me think, “Yes, THIS is how I would want someone to gather and interpret all the Pinterest boards and the 300 random ideas I have and style my home for me!” And based on her client’s feedback, that seems to be Kaya’s specialty! Her ability to listen to her clients, find out what they like, what they don’t and present them with something that makes them go “Yes please, this.”
I wanted to know how she was able to do this and looked through her Instagram feed for clues. Instead, I got caught up in Kaya’s world and her outlook towards life. Her dedication towards her clients is clearly evidenced in her work and it doesn’t take much to realise that Kaya treats a client’s home as her own. What I especially picked up on and loved is that in a world where many interior designers talk about artistic touch and value, Kaya prioritises the fact that someone’s home is about their wellbeing and lifestyle. She doesn’t see it as her project, she sees it as the client’s home for which she adds value. My interest piqued when I realised that Kaya is a mum of 2 young children, that she started her business, KaVaRa Home Styling, after she had them, and that she manages to balance, or as she put it, integrate them all into working for her life and herself. And of course, I HAD to find out how she was doing it all and more about her so I asked her if I could feature her for July. She very kindly accepted, and that’s how she became Tenacious Woman #12! Here’s her beautiful story.
As a home stylist, I understand you offer services for both long term solutions and for something more temporary like staging an apartment to sell. Can you tell me about your services can be in these two scenarios?
Most people would understand what I do as interior designing. Unlike say, being an architect, there are no rules in the UK that you have to be formally qualified to become an interior designer. There are other countries that need you to be formally qualified from an institution to do so. But not in the UK. So that means when I started there was a lot of freedom in how I wanted to do things and what I wanted to do. I didn’t want to go down the conventional way either. So I offer two services like you said; one is home styling, which is predominantly for families, couples, singletons who are settling into their very long-term home basically.
Their forever home?
That’s right, and they want to make an investment into their home, their lifestyle, and their wellbeing. Because they’re going to be there for a while. So I help them design and style spaces that are highly reflective of them. Because one of the biggest differences between me and a conventional designer is that I source everything from what we in the UK call the “high street” and online retailers. So normal, conventional shops that we all know rather than something from high end designers and bespoke services which is basically what more traditional interior designers do. One of the other differences is also that people ask “So, what’s your style? What’s your taste?” I try not to answer that because when I work with my clients it is their style, their taste that I put forward. Some clients don’t realise or know exactly what their taste is or what they want exactly. But I take it as my job to dig in to that and find out what it is they really love. I do a lot of background work before we start doing anything to bring in their preferences. So these are 2 major differences.
The second service I offer is called “style to sell” which is a short term thing. This service actually fell into my lap. It’s not something I planned to start but a client approached me last year and asked if I would do that for them. Their scenario was that they had a property on the market for months that didn’t sell. And because it didn’t sell, they missed out on the home they wanted to buy as they wanted to sell this to buy that one. Obviously, they were very gutted. Months later, they came across another home they wanted to buy. They had to sell their home this time round and like most people, they started a family and had children. But after having children, running around, working, they didn’t have time to finish the major bedrooms compared to the rest of the home. And they felt that was exactly what was letting them down. So they asked me “We’ve got all the furniture, can you just style it for us? We don’t need design. We don’t need furniture and things.” So I said “Sure” and I styled that for them. They ended up getting an offer within days of me finishing it! They were able to move on to buy the next property, and I thought “Hold on a minute, there’s something here!” I did my research and I found out there’s a lot of staging companies. There’s no one doing the half bits when someone’s living in their home, when they already have the furniture or they don’t have the eye for presentation and details.
And what has been your favourite project so far?
Oh my god that’s a hard question! I know it’s going to sound cliché but I haven’t had one I didn’t love. Both aesthetically and client-wise. I’ve been very lucky to work with amazing people. Amazing families, amazing individuals and couples. I feel really proud and emotional to say that with some of them, I’ve impacted their life in a great way! My job is very creative, very aesthetic driven. But there is an underline wellbeing and lifestyle that comes with it. For example, I finished a project for a lady who is a single mother of twin boys who are only about 8 years old. It’s a new chapter for her, having recently separated and she had come into this home. That kind of stuff just warms my heart. Last year, I had a project for a bachelor who lives and works in the city. He was so honest, he said “I want to see myself settle down and I want to bring someone home without feeling embarrassed about it!”
Aww!
He was so honest and I couldn’t be more appreciative of that! The previous place he came from is literally down the road from the new one. He was thinking long-term, it was far more than just making the place look nice. I could think of so many more examples! Another lady was 2 years away from retirement and she wanted to improve her home. I just sat there listening to her stories! She’s been a judge, our previous Prime Minister appointed her to work, she’s done really big jobs, she’s retiring soon. She now works for the government for a department that deals with child trafficking. And she appointed me because she was going to start spending a lot of time at home so she wanted to improve it. A lot of my clients are families just like me. Young children, parents working but there’s also an array of other people who need me to make a real big emotional difference in their lives. I can’t tell you one specific project!
I never thought of it that way, an emotional difference! That’s really sweet! One of the things I love about your business is that home styling doesn’t have to cost an arm and a leg. Which I LOVE. That with the right person you can find something from IKEA and make it look “Wow!” So have you ever had an instance where a client didn’t want products from high street and how did you work around that?
I’ve had clients tell me specific shops but I don’t ask why. I’ve never had anyone say “I don’t want anything from the high street” because that’s exactly what my selling point is. I had a meeting with a new client yesterday and we were talking about artwork. Now, I know they have budget for what I call “collectible art”. And I said to them I will not be sourcing that for you for 2 reasons. One, because those are investments. They’re not going to spend 10 000 pounds on this piece of art just for the sake of it. They’re collectibles so they’re investments. And I can’t be making that call for them. It’s such a personal thing to buy that and I’m not the right person to get involved in it. Two, I have no idea about high end stuff! Honestly! I’m all high street in everything I do! From the makeup I wear to the clothes! I don’t know anything about high end brands! I don’t even think I own a single designer handbag! It doesn’t even interest me. So if anyone were to ask me, “Oh, we don’t want to do high street, we want to do high end”, I would be more than happy to show them the way to some of my colleagues I know, other interior designers who know their stuff. It’s not even that I don’t want to do it, it’s that I don’t know anything about it. It’s not my expertise. I don’t want to do a bad job in spending all that money and get the wrong stuff for them. I am not knowledgeable enough, it’s not for me.
I love that! So, I’ve seen in your time lapse videos where you are adding “final touches” to the apartment that you still make what look like on the spot adjustments. Like you would rest a frame on a chest of drawers and then you would hold it up against the wall instead to see how that looks or if that would look better. Now I always thought home styling and interior design would be something you would have to plan to the T beforehand.
Tiny changes are allowed in my mind! But they cannot be major changes. Because the way I carry my service out, it is a collaborative work between me and my clients. I’m very keen on making a home reflective of my clients. I produce options for them all along where they say yes or no to. So nothing of me saying “This is how we’re going to do it in your home.” I don’t ever do that. Everything has been pre-decided between me and my clients. Possibly even weeks and months before you see these time lapse videos. Then orders are made, items arrive, they’re then put together. And my clients trust me completely by then because we worked together for some time now. The turnaround time for one space can be no less than probably 2 months. Sometimes much longer depending on the lead time of any furniture that needs to arrive. Some furniture arrive in 2 days. Some furniture arrive in 6 weeks. So we work together for so long and being in almost daily contact, they trust me to make those small changes. They’re always in the house as I don’t ever get rid of them. They’re here, they’re watching. It’s not like on TV. I don’t know how it is in Asia. In the UK and America, the home improving shows on TV, they’re very much like clients are out the house. We do whatever feels right here. And it’s like “Wow!” No, no, I don’t do that. I’m never going to do that. I don’t agree with that. Unless I am Kelly Hoppen or some big name, clients are always present. Clients are with me all the way through. There are some very slight, tiny, minute details I might change but 99% of things are already pre-agreed behind the scenes.
And I also see it as a perfectionist quality in you. So where does that come from?
I’m trying to fight it actually. More like, I’m trying to tune my perfectionism in the right places. I think all my life it’s been across everything. As I’m getting older, I’m realising perfection can actually hold you back significantly. It’s not something I was fully aware of. In terms of where it comes from, my dad is a perfectionist.
Right!
Perfectionist, highly organised, a bit of a hoarder. If you ask him, “Dad have you got the water bill from 1996 July?” My dad will go in the attic and find it for you because he keeps everything. He also organises it so well in his folders that he will find it for you in 5 minutes. And I know I get it from him. I didn’t mean to, it just rubbed off on me. But I’ve become so aware that it can hold me back so much because it can take me so much longer to get something done and to push it out in the world. I’m still learning to tell myself “Put your professionalism in your client work. In the actual interior. And be particular about that.” The business aspect will keep evolving. The most important thing is you take action and you put it out there. Otherwise no one knows about what you’re doing.
But I think that’s a great quality! I would want a home stylist who cares about whether it really makes a difference whether you want to hang a frame or let it rest.
That frame did get hung in the end! My clients usually get me a handyman in the same day to come and help me out. And it’s funny because I don’t appoint them, the clients bring someone. Some handy people – you can tell they’re so annoyed with me. “Ugh! She wants me to move it for 3 millimetres!!” And some of the handymen completely understand me because they’re just like me. As soon as they come and take their tools out, I think “This guy gets me, we are going to get along really well!”
Your website says you make a contribution towards kiva.org for every new client. How did this come about and can you tell me why that is an important part of your business?
Again, I’ll draw back to my dad who is a very charitable man from as long as I can remember. We grew up doing as much as we possibly could, mostly for the Sri Lankan community but it didn’t stop there. I knew in my heart that I would start my own business at some point in my life while growing up. And I knew as soon as I could, me and my business would contribute. Or do something charitable in the name of the business. I started my business but I didn’t feel like I was ready to do something as such in the first year or so. This year I thought “We are ready and we are going to do this.” And I wanted to do it publicly because I want to tie my client and this. I wanted it to be for every project, for every client as opposed to my business giving monthly. Even if the client doesn’t care about that, I wanted it to be a reward to me. Every time I have a new client this is a reward that is happening. My clients also get a summary of who I have helped through them becoming a client to me. And they go “Oh! That’s really nice! Thank you!” It’s a feel-good factor, right?
But also, my service can be seen as a bit of a vanity service. Whether you care about it or not. I’m a woman in business, I’ve got children and I’m juggling it. A lot of people I’ve picked on Kiva are quite similar, I am a bit biased. A lot of my clients are usually women finding me and talking to me and then the husband or the partner gets involved. Again, the majority of my clients are families, young families. So they totally appreciate when I lend a hand to a woman with a family somewhere on the other side of the world to start her own business. So it kind of ties back. I found out about Kiva because someone I follow on Instagram spoke about it. For a long time I was researching about who or which charity or organisation I wanted to support. And nothing fully clicked the way Kiva did. So that’s where it came from!
I guess that’s the case for most people – when you do charity work, you see yourself in them and that’s why you want to help them.
Absolutely, there’s always a story tied, right? Either yourself or what your family has gone through, people you know have gone through. People reflective of you in the people who currently need help. So Kiva gives me the freedom of selecting who I want to contribute towards and I would know exactly what it’s going towards. And the majority of the profiles are entrepreneurs trying to start their own business. In order to elevate their personal life or family life basically.
That’s amazing. So, you had a career in advertising before this, right? What was the push factor in leaving your career?
Well it’s a number of things. And all those things happened in one precise moment. A bit of background, I studied marketing with French at university.
You have a degree in French?!
I was born in France actually! I’m actually French – Sri Lankan. Born and raised in Paris until I was 13 and then my family and I moved here to the UK when I was 13. So French was a bit of an easy subject.
So you’re trilingual?! Wow!!
Well, yes! So I went to university doing marketing with French. My career path before that was just 3 things. Either Psychology, Law, or something to do with marketing. Because I came to this country with no English and I was late to learn it, school kind of put me off from Law and Psychology. The teachers felt that it required so much English that I might not pull it off. I went into marketing because I always knew I had a creative side of mind. And I genuinely like the sound of a buzzing industry. I kind of grew up on a show called “Ugly Betty” just before Uni and I just wanted to live that New York city life. Where it’s a creative environment and all that kind of stuff. And then I graduated in 2008, the year of recession. The company at which I had secured a job in marketing went bust even before I started. I ended up in odd jobs here and there and I got married. After that, my husband was like “Time to pursue your dream now!” I was like “Okay.” I tried really hard and got myself into marketing. I worked for a tech company which is based in America that had an office here as well. We specialised in online video advertisements. I worked on the ad that comes before you watch a video on YouTube but it’s outside of YouTube. YouTube is owned by Google so they have their own team. What we did was to pick up the creative assets. Creative agencies will create the actual visual you see and then they’ll pass it to a company like us and we put it out there in front of the videos of several other websites such as BBC world, CNN. All of these websites have videos on the bottom of their articles and they want to monetise it so our sales team will go and win the pitches and bring back the budgets. I would put it out on the website that is deemed correct for the KPI that the clients need to achieve. My work wasn’t actually creative, it was very analytical. I wasn’t an engineer but I had a lot of engineers to work with, I was analysing numbers, I was in charge of our profit margin, I was in charge of making money for all these publishers, all these websites.
And what happened was I had children! That career and industry is extremely demanding, it’s great for people who are “young” in their lives. I had to travel a lot to the US. Before it was fine, but after children was really hard. My husband’s career was flourishing internationally at that time as well. We don’t really have consistent grandparents help around us either. And I never wanted to be that mum who is absent and only waited for the weekend. I wanted to do all the drop-offs, all the pickups, I wanted to spend time with them after school, I wanted to do their homework with them, I wanted to cook dinner for them. I just didn’t want to share motherhood with anyone else basically. So after having children, going back to work was just the opposite. My children were in nursery from 730 to 6 o’clock. They usually go to bed at half 7 so I’ve only got an hour and a half, which is not the prettiest hour you have with your children when you have to cook, clean, bathe them and put them to bed. We were just living for the weekend. I felt like that was not fair on them. I was miserable about it, they were so young and they grow so quickly. But I am also ambitious and driven. So I just came to a crossroad and that was when we did our home and I found this passion. When I was really agonising about the situation, my husband said, “Just leave. Just do this. We know you’re going to start some sort of business someday because you’re so obsessed about starting businesses.” So that was the crossroad. The children, the demanding career, the new passion and the time was right. And I took the plunge. It was a very scary one.
So it was like finding the balance that you wanted?
I created that balance. When I left, I told myself that with my self-employment, I will tell my clients I work between 9 and 3 because at 5 past 3 I leave to pick up the kids. In their eyes, I don’t work past 3 o’clock. Reality is I work after putting the kids to bed on most evenings. But for the clients, I work 9 to 3. I don’t work during school holidays. Summer is different because it’is quite long, it’s 2 months. But they know I reduce my hours from 5 days a week to 3 three days a week. And they’re fine and very respectful of that. Because I tell them in advance and give them plenty of notice. I work my deadlines around that. I discuss it, I bring it forward or I push it back. And like I said, so many of my clients are families with young children, they know what school holidays are like. Kids in the UK are off every 6 weeks!
I’m going to circle back to that because I have questions about that. So your job in advertising wasn’t creative based at all?
My role wasn’t. Of course in university I thought I would be creating all these advertisements not pushing them out. And there was always a piece of me missing because I wasn’t doing something creative in my professional life but equally, I did love what I did. The team in the UK was very small. There were only about 10 or 14 of us at most. Whereas in the US, there was about 400 of them. So every single one of us, as a start-up, played a vital role. I felt hugely valued in what I did. I was definitely making an impact just like every other individual because we were not so big that we were just a number. I always enjoyed working for small teams and smaller companies. I never wanted to be a number where people didn’t really know my name. So although my actual role wasn’t creative, I suppose I also like numbers, I also like analysing, and making money for my company because I was in charge. There was a team that was in charge of sales, of the revenue, but when I left, I was the only one in my department in the UK so I was running my own show. I was the one in charge of the profit margin that we made in the UK. I was also massively impacting the revenue of all these other 100 publishers as well, which meant that the perks of it was I was always very nicely treated, because they wanted to keep Kaya really sweet throughout the year! I remember my first pregnancy when I was leaving to go on maternity, I think I had 6 hampers, so many gifts and it was lovely. I’m not naturally a salesperson. They were selling to me which was a nice seat to be in.
So was it a shock to start KaVaRa then? Because it’s so creative and that part of you was kind of on mute for some time?
I think it was a little bit on mute and then when we bought our house, it started to come out. The shock of KaVaRa was definitely a shock to the system. I don’t think anyone fully comprehends what it’s like to run their own business until you put your feet in there because you are every department. You might be strong in some departments and very weak in some others. But you’ve got to educate yourself, pull yourself together and do it. You can’t let one slack, basically. I love, love, LOVE the creative aspect of my business. I get a lot of people approach me on DMs who want to go into interior design, who are mothers and who want to do this around the children saying, “How is it?” “How did you start?” and I’m very honest with them. I don’t want to sugar coat anything but when you first start your business, you are probably creating 5% of the time and 95% of the time, you are chasing clients to get work. So it’s 95% business, 5% creating to begin with. And then obviously your aim is to increase the creating time and outsource the other. I say to them you have to have a passion in running your business as much as you have a passion in creating beautiful, interior designs. Because otherwise, you’re not going to last. It’s as simple as that. If you ask me. I LOVE running a business as much as I love creating beautiful homes. I really love both aspects of it and that’s probably why I can pump in all these hours and do all that stuff, fall and get back up again, fall and get back up again. But if I was only keen on creating beautiful interiors it’s hard to last because at the beginning of your business, that’s not all you’re doing.
That makes sense. So let’s circle back to the part about KaVaRa and your daughters and starting your business all at the same time. So I understand KaVaRa was born after you had 2 daughters. So from what I’ve seen or what society tells you is once you become a mum, people’s lives kind of stops there or they put it on pause until the kid is old enough or independent enough. But you pursued this little spark you felt from renovating your home. So what was that like – juggling young kids and starting up a business?
I did take a little pause. I went back to work after my children. I did exactly one year after my youngest. I went back to work when she was 9 months old and that’s when I thought enough is enough. I definitely left with this business idea in mind, but I knew I needed to breathe first. Because we had an intense few years with the children, and with work. My children are not very far apart in age either. There’s only a 22 months gap between them. My eldest daughter has medical needs as well. So there was a period of time between when she was 1, and that’s when I was pregnant with my second one, untill she turned 3 when we were literally at the hospital every 3 to 4 weeks. It was an intense, intense first few years of parenting for us. Plus crazy hours at work and a lot of travelling for both of us. A lot of juggling all that kind of stuff and buying a house and renovating and all of that. We are crazy! We don’t regret any of it but I think we’re a bit more strong than we give ourselves credit for. Both my husband and I. So when I left work, I had this business idea but I needed to breathe. I needed to clear up my head so that I can have a clear mind for the business but I also want to take time to be with the children because I’ve missed out on them for a whole year. They were so young and at the time our eldest daughter still had 1 year before full time obligatory school. Nursery here is an option for working parents. So I said to my husband. I will launch the day she goes to school. And I will launch part time because my youngest was still going to be at home. I’ll do it part-time because I don’t want to waste my time working while she’s still at home as well. Because once they go to school, they’re never really going to be home again! It will be school, secondary school, maybe university, and see you later! And I’ll think where have my children gone! I didn’t want that to happen and I was so aware of that. So he was fine with it.
It does come with some compromises when one of you stops working. It comes with financial compromises but also with the fact that I’m now picking up more slack at home than before because I’m more home. That’s not the pretty part. I don’t enjoy cooking and cleaning all the time. But I’m home so that’s a natural thing, right? But I took that one year pause to clear my head out. We also had a phenomenal opportunity through my husband’s work to move to New York during that time. My last day at work when I was serving my notice, he was on a business trip in New York with his boss and their bosses. I messaged him as I left the office, crying out my eyes, I didn’t even know if I was doing the right thing but here we go. That’s it I’m done. It’s the end of an era. And he must have read it and mentioned it to his bosses. And I think they asked a few things and they gathered that I wasn’t going to start immediately. So they said to him “How would you feel moving here to New York with your wife and children for short term”. Because he was doing a role where he built a team here in the UK and it was going well, they wanted him to build a similar team in the US so he was travelling between London and New York very frequently. Which meant the other sacrifice was me being a lone parent for quite a few days every month. We are very supportive of each other’s career progression. So he said “Let me speak to my wife.” He knew I would say yes immediately because I am a sucker for New York.
It’s a dream right!
Yeah, it is! I have grown up, dreaming to live in New York. I’m not joking you. There’s nowhere else I would rather be than London or New York.
I get it! I want to be in New York for a year too, so I get it!
My husband and I grew up on watching American movies and also after marriage, we chewed on American series. I told you I’m a big fan of Ugly Betty which was based in New York as well. And it happened, it happened for us. People didn’t realise that I was working on my business in the background other than my husband and my Mum and Dad I suppose. I was working on setting that up very slowly because the children were home with me 24/7. We took them out of nursery. But very slowly, I enjoyed New York with my children and husband for months. In the evening or whenever he’s home fon the weekend, he will take them out and I’ll do a few hours on the business. I needed that time to get my head in the right place basically.
Right. So that was like your “gap year”?
Yes! Yes! My gap year was my children. It’s like a nice way to catch up on the time I felt I had lost as well, right? My friend to this date still says, I probably had the best maternity leave ever. And the best time out of work living in New York. And I’m just so grateful for it. I really am.
That sounds like a dream. A dream. So many people from what I know, would label starting businesses as a risk. Especially once they have kids and kids are in the picture, they wouldn’t want to take as much risks, they become more conservative. So was KaVaRa a risk or a gamble or how comfortable are you with the fact that you have KaVaRa?
I’m actually shy of risks, funnily enough. And so is my husband. My husband’s even worse than me. Maybe because of what he does for a living. He assesses risks for a living so we are not risky people at all! We do a lot of Excel spreadsheet calculations! We literally have Excel spreadsheets for everything of our lives. We work really well in that sense. When we talked about the financial risks, we did a lot of calculations. We spoke a lot about what we are going to have to cut back on, what we’re going to compromise on, for how long. I see people and I commend these people who put tens of thousands of pounds into their business even before the doors are open. I am not like that. My overheads are tiny. I’m so conscious about keeping it that way and that may be why I am so happy in my business. I definitely know it’s not the way forward. And I am becoming more and more comfortable in investing and I do invest. A lot of the investments I have done so far are in myself, mentors, programmes, courses and marketing investments. You’ll never find me buying a piece of equipment just like that because I need it immediately. You would never find me getting a studio or an office space just like that. I am the opposite of what a normal, conventional business person is. I’m extremely conscious about every penny. Even my time actually. I see it as an investment. 99% of the time, I make sure I’m not working when I’m with my children, it doesn’t mean it never happens but I am strict about it. I value my time hugely. Some people are comfortable with taking risks but for some people, you can learn to do so. I compare my parents and his parents. Again, they are not risk takers in any kind, shape or form so obviously, we have embraced that. But if you’re scared about it, it means you might think about it 4 times rather than 2 times and you can teach yourself to take risks that are well assessed and that are required because you thought about it really well. We are definitely not the type to go “Yeah, let’s invest this much here and there and take on big responsibilities.” Not yet anyway, not until I’m ready.
But I think this is something that people who want to start a business can consider; this is a very interesting alternative point of view I guess.
My investments before launching my business were only in the hundreds of pounds. Not in the thousands of pounds. If anyone thinks oh you need loads of money to start a business, you need to know what business you want to go into first. And then explore the possibility of doing this and what you can afford. Not just afford in terms of spend but in terms of what you’re comfortable with spending out there. Initially, I built my website by myself. That costs nothing. A meal in a nice restaurant costs far more than your year’s worth of your website fees. But you pump in your time for that. That’s what you get back in return. I did a lot of research about how to make that website, how to make it work and I’m not even a IT person. So don’t think you have to pump in a load of money even before you start bringing in your first penny.
Right, because we have the resources as well I find.
Yeah, and you can teach yourself a lot of stuff too, right?
Exactly! Everything is on YouTube!
Absolutely, exactly!
So would you say that pursuing your dream has had any impact on your daughters? Because I remember you shared in your stories once of a floorplan your daughter did!
My youngest is still quite reserved and a little young to verbalise things but my eldest is very vocal, very expressive. She is 6 and a half at the moment. I knew she was very expressive from the moment that she could talk. It has impacted them in a lot of ways. They compare me and their dad in what we do. She had started to ask questions. “How come Daddy can’t and you can.” So we explain. We talk a lot about our work life with our children because ultimately, that’s definitely one thing they’ll be doing in the future. And we explain daddy has a boss, daddy has a team, daddy has responsibilities that are coming from above. Whereas mummy is a one woman show so I am my own boss. And one day, she asked me about university. I didn’t realise she was aware of university because she only went to school last year. And she said, what is it, what is it for and we explained that it teaches you to be qualified in something specific. She said “Do I have to go?” We said “Would be nice if you did!” And she asked me “Do you have to go to university to be a home stylist?” I said “Not strictly.” And she said, “Well then, I don’t need to go because I want to be a home stylist just like you mummy.” And I was like “Okay! Why is that?” She said “I just don’t want to have a boss!” So we realised it’s imprinting on her that there’s a different path in life. She’s obviously growing up watching both avenues.
It’s so interesting what they pick on at such a young age!
They pick up on so much! She said “You make people happy in their homes.” It’s having an influence on them. I think I’m underestimating the amount of influence it’s having. I don’t think we fully understand. But we are happy for them to learn. That there’s not just one choice in life. There are multiple choices and paths you can take on. She’s very proud of me. She goes and tells everyone at school “My mum’s a home stylist so she has no boss, she’s her own boss!”
That’s what she got from it!
Exactly! She thinks daddy is restricted in so many things, he can’t take time off suddenly, we can’t just wrap up early just because we can go for ice-cream, we have to wait until he’s finished working…. So she picks up the freedom aspect of it. She goes “You do a lot of shopping for your work. That’s so cool.” That’s a 6 year old’s perspective.
It’s beautiful! I mean, she’s not wrong. Many of us are business owners because we don’t want a boss. So while we are on the topic of being a mum, I read in one of your captions where you said you have it all and I thought “Wow!” can you imagine being in that state of mind? Because I think it’s one thing to be content with what you have but it’s another to go “I have it all”. So was it like one day you woke up and thought “Wow. I have it all in life” or was it a mindset you actively built towards?
If you want a very rationalised view of that, I probably don’t have it all. If I have to think deep, I can probably come up with loads of things I don’t have in life. But lots of stuff has happened in life. Especially when the children were born, when my youngest turned 3 up until then, everything was all over the place. From the outsider’s perspective I still looked like I had it all. But that doesn’t mean I had it all. Yes I had a healthy family, I had healthy children, actually I grew up worrying whether I would be able to become a mother so just the fact that I am a mother is the biggest thing. We have a decent marriage, not a perfect marriage. But I felt that in those years we were, or I was a little bit all over the place. Now I do feel like I have it all. Because I feel content and I feel at peace and balanced. Like I said earlier, I want everything and my everything might mean something completely different to your everything. But I now feel like I have everything. I have a thriving business that I absolutely adore waking up to. I have all the time I want with my children. I have my children, we are all healthy. We have a home. We have a healthy marriage. I feel like I do have it all. And there will be periods of time when one might be more than the other. But you can’t think you don’t have the other because you’re having a little less of it. Everyone is still striving to have a balance. Sometimes I call it work-life integration rather than work-life balance. Because it’s not a balance. It’s an integration. I was in a place where for a long time, there was something missing. In the last 3 years, I feel like I have it all. Some days I wish I could just carry on working for a few more hours. Some other days I wish my kids are not going back to school tomorrow or I had another day of holiday or that we could extend our beach outing. But no, back to reality, back to cooking and cleaning. It’s a bit unbalanced but I do have it all. Just at different levels every day.
That sounds like how you see things then.
Yes. The frame of mind thing is only something I’ve learned and come across as a concept in the recent years actually. So that might have been the reason why I now feel like I have it all. Maybe I had it all back then but I failed to see it. I don’t know. I’ve mentioned this before. I came across a book called “Mindset” a few years ago. You can Google it, it’s quite a popular book. It’s a hard one to digest. I was never exposed to the mindset concept of any kind before. I stumbled across this book in a bookstore and I thought “Well, this is interesting.” It was a very difficult read for me at the time. But I got through the book and I was enlightened to a whole new level. I think subconsciously, now, I am driven to identify my thought process at least 50% of the time. Which is 50% more than ever before. So maybe that’s what’s now transformed my perspective – it may also well be the fact that I have created my own values between my personal and my professional life. I had to compromise but I feel like they’re not compromises anymore. It just requires patience. If it was up to me, I would work 12 hour days, 6 days a week. Because I love what I do. And make ten times the money and ten times more projects completed. But that’s not what I really, really want. I wish that because I’m eager. Equally, if it was up to me, me and my family would be on some sort of holiday every other week. Have a real quality time exploring and experiencing things and going on adventures. I could still be looking at things as that bit is missing or this bit is missing. But I suppose now, I don’t even think about it that way. There are of course, some days that are better than others in feeling content. But overall and I don’t feel any guilt in saying this, it can come across as arrogant I suppose, but I do feel like I have it all.
Not at all! It’s not arrogant at all! I loved it because to date you still have people like Michelle Obama saying women can’t have it all. And here is someone I know on Instagram saying, I have it all!
There’s more I aspire to have as well. But right now, what I want and need right now, I have all it all.
What would you say then to the people struggling to understand the narrative that you can have it all?
I don’t know. I think the brain is definitely a muscle. It’s not a switch you can turn on and off to think that way immediately. I think you definitely need to educate yourself on how your mind works. And where your mind is going at times in order for you to gain control over it. You won’t have control 100% of the time, it’s not human to be that way but if you can identify your thought patterns, if you can hear your own voice that talks to you, either positively or negatively, then you are in a better position to manipulate that. I do strongly believe that all humans are made of stories and experiences and that’s what paints the picture for us. Whether it’s our own experiences and stories or other people impacting us, we are all made of stories. And the story that you intake or tell yourself has a huge impact on the way you see the world in your own mind. I keep saying this, you cannot be that way a 100% of the time 24/7, you can’t! There are days where I’m like, “What is this that I’m doing?! I don’t want to cook for one more person in this house. Can you please use your own brain to find where your socks are, please?” Plenty of that! But I don’t allow that ALL the time to decide my whole life.
That’s what it’s all about right? Letting the bad days define your overall life?
No, it’s a bad moment. It’s funny because I was never a reflective person, I never journaled very much. I did when I was really young and then it stopped. I thought I was too cool for it. But I picked up the five-minute journal last year. We have a kids journal that my children do as well. Which is a different brand, called “My happy journal”. We don’t do it every night religiously, we do it as much as we possibly can. It says “What are the 3 things you enjoyed the most today?” My eldest currently has the tendency of dwelling on the small bad aspects of the day that lasted 5 minutes and she holds on to for 3 hours. And I say “Okay, you had an argument with your sister. Or you broke your toy or something. Because of that you feel like you’ve had a bad day. What about when you were dancing to your favourite song?” So you have to train yourself.
You’re teaching her to see the positive! Wow!
It’s a skill, it’s a muscle. Some people are gifted to be that way, to be happy-go-lucky. But no one in my household is like that. So we are teaching ourselves to see the brighter side. It doesn’t mean you dismiss whatever makes you sad or angry or brings you down. You don’t dismiss it but you do have to process it. You don’t just ignore it and move on.
That’s beautiful. So, what would you like to be known for?
Like I said, I want it all. I want to be a wife, I want to be a mum, I want to be a daughter, I am these things. I want to be a sister. I’m a very best friend for a few people. I want it all therefore, what I want to be known for has multiple layers. I think that evolves over time too. And you’re allowed to allow that to change, right? So, right now, in my life, I want to be known as a parent that raised my children in a way that don’t need to get over their past to get on with their future.
Wow!
I think big or small, things can impact children really quickly. We really can’t ever be perfect parents. I’m far from a perfect parent. It’s funny because people watch my Instagram videos and they’re like you’ve got such a soothing voice. But you should see me at home! That’s the reality! We’re not perfect parents. We lose it all the time. But right now what I want to be known for is for my children to feel like “Mum equipped us and built us in the right way for us to carry on as adults.” In a strong way. I do a lot of affirmation with them. I always remind them, “You’re kind, you’re smart, you’re strong, you’re beautiful, you’re important, you’re safe and you’re loved.” These are 7 things you must always remember about yourself and it’s not just saying it but I want to be that parent that puts it in them. So that’s the layer of parenting that completes our priority. I just think if I was to live to 80 years, I really only have about 15 to 20 years to impact my children. So in my lifetime, I only have a small window to create, harness and cherish good human beings. So that’s really important right now. The other thing I want to be known for is mostly for women, but everyone and anyone, I want to leave a lot of wisdom that I picked up along the way myself. I want to give it back before anything happens to me. That’s through supporting, that’s through teaching, that’s through cheerleading, you name it whatever it is. Because we all have different things in life. And if we don’t share it, then what’s the point?
What does the word “tenacity” mean to you?
Tenacity to me means, don’t give up, don’t give up in anything. I don’t just mean in business, of course, you can’t give up. No one just takes off. That never happens. You will fall a million times if you make one step ahead. Not just in business but in everything. Even outside of business, for me, the single most important thing is relationships with people. Whether that’s your children, your partner, your parents, your siblings, your friends, whoever it is, it’s all about relationships. I think people have this perception that once a relationship is built strong and nice, it doesn’t need any more work. It stays put. No, actually, every single relationship has to be worked on, continuously in order for it to be at its best. It will never be a 100% perfect. You’ve got to work on it all the time. Any relationship you have. Even with my children, they’re growing up so fast at every age and every stage, they are different people, they have different needs. They have different questions and different attitudes and different perspectives. I’ve got to relearn about them. I’ve got to get to know them again in order to move along with them in that relationship. It’s the same in my marriage. Who we were when we first met, to when we got engaged, to when we got married, to then settling down, to one child, then two children, then careers pulling us left, right, centre, to every part of us, every part of our life requires reconnection. So I think tenacious means just don’t give up and that’s not just on the materialistic stuff. It’s also in yourself. In your own reflections. It’s always going to be ongoing work.
I love that you included relationships. I don’t think anyone so far has included relationships.
And relationship with yourself is a thing too. It’s very important. Relationship is not just about people outside of you but you should harness and feed a healthy relationship with yourself.
What would you say to the woman trying to find her passion or niche?
Don’t get disheartened by looking at other people. We live in social media age. Which if you ask me, is a curse and a blessing. It really depends on how you see it. Too often, people are allowing social media to suck the soul out of them. People will show you, and that includes me too, what they want to show you on social media. And then, it’s on you to interpret that the way you want to interpret it you know. So you could look at someone thinking like “Wow! They’re doing so well!” When that person is only showing you a certain level of what they’re doing. You are interpreting things your own way. You’re narrating this stuff more than what’s happening. Hardly anyone who is failing or who hasn’t found their passion or who hasn’t found their niche is talking about it out loud to the person next to them, let alone publicly on social media. There are millions of people in that position compared to the ones who have found something and putting it out there. Don’t get disheartened by that. If it’s hurting you, come off it. Take a break. Do whatever you need to protect yourself on there. For you to find your passion or your niche, honestly, only you can find it inside of you. And for that, you need to spend a lot of time with yourself. I don’t mean for you to take an actual vacation, 3 weeks away from your family. You really need to spend time listening to yourself, hearing yourself, looking inside yourself, exploring what makes you happy and not happy and what ticks your interest. Try things out. Don’t just make assumptions that something you’ve never been exposed to is not for you because of A, B, C, D. That’s called making excuses. We’re very good at making excuses for ourselves and that’s what stops us from moving forward. Try new things out, it doesn’t matter about anyone else’s opinion. When I wanted to start my business, I was so concerned about what people would think. That’s why I never even told anyone I was working on this business in the background when I stopped working because I was extremely fearful of the judgements, the opinions, all of that and you have to break out of that worry in order for you to move forward. Otherwise, you will stay in that bubble. You won’t even know if people’s opinions are true because you made them up in your mind. And let’s say there is someone who comes up to you and says “Who do you think you are to start this?” or “What makes you think you can do this?” or whatever, what makes them think they can say that to you anyway? They don’t know you. Even your own parents or your own partner might not know that side of you. Even you might not know that you have that side of you until you explored it, right? So it’s hard. I know. Especially in the Asian community it’s hard to put that stuff aside because we are pretty much raised in a culture that gives importance to other people’s opinions more than our own. We put ourselves secondary all the time in our culture. But I think things are starting to change and move forward. Especially on social media, you will find people who have the guts to go and be something that their previous generation would have never dared to do. It’s hard, I know it’s hard. And it’s not a switch you can flip over night of not caring about other people’s opinions or judgements. But if you can stop judging yourself, stop giving yourself negative opinions about you and stop giving yourself excuses, then you will be open to explore and I promise you, eventually, sooner than later, you will find your passion and your niche. You just have to tune in with yourself.
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