Shmruthi - Driven, Purposeful, Nonconformist
Sometime back, I posted on my Instagram stories asking for nominations for tenacious women. Imagine my surprise when Shmruthi very kindly volunteered herself, saying she would be more than happy to share her experiences! Of course, featuring Shmruthi had already crossed my mind by this point, there are SO many things she does that make me want to go “But HOW did you manage to pull this off?” and discuss with (read: almost interrogate) her over some naan and paneer butter masala. Plus, she already had my heart with the numerous yellow sarees she had styled. I just thought it might be a little awkward to ask her because we had just started following each other on Instagram. Turns out I could have just been overthinking things; Shmruthi very generously offered to share her experiences with my very small platform and I was over the MOON. I replied her right away saying it was an absolute honour to feature her on my site and asked if there was anything she wanted to speak about in particular as she had nominated herself. Shmruthi’s suggestions were everything I already had in mind and I was so excited by the thought of being on the same frequency as someone I so admired. And you will see in the writeup that we were quite on sync with how the interview just flowed, and how Shmruthi managed to segue perfectly into my next questions!
Shmruthi is actually the first tenacious woman to nominate herself, making her tenacious woman #13. And I thought it was such a bold move as it’s something many of us (including me) feel uncomfortable doing – to speak about our experiences or to have our name adjacent to powerful words like “tenacious”. So I wanted to unpack a little more of Shmruthi’s outlook towards life and her perspectives; what better way than to ask her more about ALL the snippets of her life she has shared with us so far? Her body positivity journey, her saree journey, her push for South Asian women in the boardroom, her brazen approach towards taboo topics – there’s bits and pieces of ALL of them in here, and somehow, they all fuse into one single theme: Shmruthi’s tenacity. Read on to learn a little more about her take on life and to get some ideas on how we can all live a more brazen life!
I want to start this interview with what I see as your first WOW step which was living in Tamilnadu for over 20 years and literally moving to Paris overnight. So, why Paris?
It was not a conventional choice as most of the people from my circle preferred the US for higher studies in Engineering given there is no language barrier. However, I was very sure I wanted to do management studies. And an MBA in the US is very expensive and I wasn’t in a position to afford that. I wanted to finance my studies myself. I didn’t want my dad to be using all his life savings to give me the education. Europe was a great option for that because it was a lot less expensive and since it wasn’t a popular choice the French government was providing scholarships and stipends for international students. Further, I was switching from engineering to something completely new. So I knew that I needed some time to try out a few career options in the form of internships. European schools provide the flexibility to take a gap year and that was very exciting for me at that moment. And that’s how I made the choice of Paris.
How much of a shock was it, how did you learn to adapt and find a place for yourself there?
The first year I had a big cultural shock. I grew up in a small town in Tamilnadu called Erode for the first 15 years of my life. And then I moved to Coimbatore for my high school and Chennai for my university. I consider myself a small-town girl because most of my childhood was spent in Erode. That’s where most of my first experiences were shaped. So when I moved to France, it was a complete cultural shock. I remember the very first night in Paris vividly. I was put up in a mixed dorm with male and female students living in the same building. And someone walked over and he wanted to hug me. It’s so common in France to say hi with a hug and kisses on the cheek! He was just being friendly, but for me, it was completely alien and an invasion of my personal space! Even though I considered myself an open and progressive girl before the move to France, I was taken aback by how different people’s customs and perspectives were. So it took me a long time to even get comfortable to the way of greeting in Europe and to get comfortable with drinking for instance. It was such a taboo in my family and society that only bad people drink and that’s how I was brought up. I struggled a lot with making friends because everyone would go out to a bar and that’s where they would socialise. I had to find my own way of making friends and having social gatherings without alcohol. It was a very interesting part of finding myself. The extreme experience of moving myself across continents in my early 20s gave me a lot of new perspectives and made me reevaluate how I approached life in general.
Yeah! I think in Paris, trying to navigate out of the airport as a student must have been hard! Even things like a taxi must be a financial constraint!
Yes! There was no way we could afford taxis 😊
Yeah! And you don’t speak the language so how did you learn your way in?
It was a struggle initially with not knowing the language and also having a financial crunch. I remember the first years when I was living on a scholarship and I was very proud and strong to not ask my parents for money. I was saving a little from the scholarship and doing everything I wanted to, including travel, my newfound love. What helped me get through this phase was a drive and never give up attitude, which I carried from a young age. I viewed my situation as, “I am in a new country learning many new things and that’s an opportunity not many get.” I started learning French so I could start getting by and make simple conversations with people. It was the mindset of looking at it as an opportunity rather than a burden, that helped me get through.
I love that! And now you say you’ve lived in 9 countries in the past 8 years. Is that right?
I think it’s 10! But somewhere around there.
Oh my god, 10! And you’ve lived in these very, very different countries in very, very different roles – as an international student, as an intern, now as an expat. Did these different roles influence your living experiences in any way, in trying to find a place for yourself in these countries? I’m especially curious to hear if it got easier at any point, especially the culture shock. Because just the logistics of shipping things over must take a toll on you! So can you speak a little bit more about that?
Sure. I love this question. The process has changed in a lot of ways. When you become more financially secure, your experiences are vastly different from when you’re trying to get by. My husband and I were just recently discussing that we need to go back to work in Europe sometime because our view of Europe was as a struggling student. When you move as an expat, you can make friends quite quickly because of acquaintances and colleagues in the company you are moving with. So the experience is vastly different. Whereas when I moved as an intern, for instance, and I recollect my experience in Vietnam, it was a country where I knew nobody, and I went by myself and all I had was a meagre job which paid me peanuts. It was harder to integrate and adapt to the new environment. It was a struggle to even find a place to live because I was under a budget and still wanted a certain standard and had no clue who to ask for help. But again, the positive side of that is you have richer experiences.
How so?
You find creative ways, especially in the time in Vietnam, I had to supplement my income because the pay from the internship was not that good. So I was actually doing freelance content writing, believe it or not! That’s why when I came across you and your profile, it struck a chord with me because I was doing that at some point. And I loved it! Even now thinking about the time in Vietnam gives me the courage that I can manage to survive, whatever be the circumstances.
Moving as a student or intern makes you search for experiences that are unconventional, due to the constraints you have. When you move as an expat, you do you what most people do. It has become easier and more comfortable for us to be moving countries these days.
Yes, it does! As an intern, you’re thrown into an ocean and you have to learn to swim your way out, whereas as an expat you’re probably going in a comfortable boat.
Exactly.
So, speaking of international living, this is how your saree journey came about right? You wanted to find your cultural identity. So can you tell me exactly which country it started in and why is that the saree was what made you feel close to your culture or rather what a saree means for you?
I was at this place in my life where I felt challenged to manage my dual identities. I was a South Indian girl who was brought up in a very traditional background and I became a corporate woman who had very international colleagues and was moving around a lot. With this dual identity, it was getting hard for me to hold on to my roots. So at some point, I was hiding behind this corporate identity and not too confident about my other identity. I was hit with this realisation when I was working in Taiwan in 2017. I was living there for 6 months by myself and that’s when I started thinking about how I can actively express more of my love for India and my cultural identity. When I moved back to Singapore after that assignment, I started wearing sarees. And I don’t know why I picked sarees. Perhaps since I’ve worn every other attire my whole life but never learnt how to drape sarees. My friends used to help me when I was in college and I probably wore it once every year for college culturals. So that served as my motivation to try something new and it was fascinating. And it was more of a self-confidence boosting mechanism.
Right!
Rather than a fashion statement. But then I fell in love with the fashion aspect of it.
You actually paved the way for my next question because I wanted to ask you other than cultural identity, what did wearing a saree do for you! You just mentioned self-confidence so did it do anything else for you?
It was a very visual way to show my culture at work. That was very important to me for my self-confidence. And also the courage in saying that I could be this person who wears a saree and that doesn’t prevent me from going high in my career. The society is seen to always judge women for what we wear and I wanted to break the notion of stereotyping women. My workplace is very inviting of diversity and there are no discriminations or stereotypes. And even though I knew that before, wearing sarees helped me to finally believe in it myself and not be afraid of owning up to who I am.
Did you ever have an unpleasant experience where you wore the saree in another country and someone gave you a look or you had a “Oh god, maybe I shouldn’t have worn the saree today!”?
Not really, no!
WOW! That goes to show how much sarees can be normalised which is so important.
Yeah, yeah! I think it’s also in how you carry it. The most common questions I’ve been asked are “What’s special today?” “Why are you wearing a saree”. And I would just respond saying it’s Friday. I’m wearing my sarees just like how you’re wearing your jeans. This is how we can normalise it. Sometimes people won’t stop asking what’s special but seeing me wear them regularly, the questions eventually stop.
So would you say living in these international places, or increased awareness of your body from styling sarees and outfits influenced your body positive journey in any way or was it just something that happened on its own?
It happened on its own to a large extent but Instagram helped me to be vocal about it. I started Instagram to show wearing a saree in other countries is normal. But soon realized that talking about my insecurities and body-positive journey helps many women in our community. I think a lot of us can relate to growing up in a conservative society that preached certain beauty standards. I had people telling me, to be beautiful you have to have a certain skin colour, a slender frame and fit into an ideal that looked nothing like me. Growing up it was very common for me to hear that since I have a bottom-heavy frame I cannot wear certain clothes that show off my curves. Right from my parents to friends to strangers, I have heard judgements passed on my body type and that led to a lot of insecurities. Even though I was a confident person on the outside, on the inside I would have these insecurities that said, “I’m not beautiful, so I need to compensate by being the smartest person in the room!” . At some point in life, I could no longer hold these insecurities inside me and they manifested in other ways. And that’s when I realised, I have to address them to be happy and successful in my relationships, career and overall life in general. It was not possible for me to find people in my circle who would help me to get out of it so I had to look for inspiration from books, Internet and people I hardly knew but were not conforming to any of the beauty standards. This led me to do a lot of soul searching, practice positive affirmations and building that body positivity by myself. And the reason I speak up about it is because I don’t want others to go through the same things that I did.
Because when you said and I saw your profile as well, you’re talking about body positivity and South Asian women in the boardroom, it’s all different but somehow when I read your profile, when I read your captions, they kind of link to each other in some way. I found it very interesting and that’s why I asked you that.
Many people try to dismiss wanting to look beautiful and confident in your body as a frivolous thing. But I don’t think that’s true. I think wanting to look beautiful and nice and loving your body is fundamental to how you live your life. Whether that’s in your workplace or a relationship, you need to have this confidence in yourself and your body and you need to be happy with your body. If you’re hating your body then you wouldn’t perform in the workplace. So it's all linked.
Would you say you’re in a much better place now or do you still have that body positivity part comes and tickles you a little bit and you go “I’m just not having a good day today!”
I think all of us do. You can’t be positive all the time. Whether that’s about your body or your life, you cannot be positive all the time. I don’t believe in fake it till you make it. If you’re feeling not too happy about certain things, you must let that out. Give it that space and then say “Okay, this was your time. Now, let’s get back and look at the bigger perspective.” I don’t like to push positivity so much that I cannot be sad at all. I try to end the day with gratitude and reaffirming my beliefs, so that tomorrow is a better day.
That makes sense. I think of all the topics you talk on Instagram, the one that I found most unique is your emphasis on South Asian women in the boardroom. Because I have not come across it on any other profiles. I’ve not seen anyone else give tips for career and talk about money the way you do. And in our community, it’s really closed off, you don’t really talk about it in public so where did the drive to talk about these topics come from?
For the exact same reason that people don’t talk about it. When I was looking for inspiration on this, I couldn’t find a lot of people talking about it. And that’s what actually motivated me to say “Okay, even if I may not be an expert, I’m only 30, and I have a long way to go on all these topics” but I take that privilege to talk about it because every conversation has to start somewhere. When I talk about career it helps me to become more confident in those topics and if it helps one other person just starting their career, that’s already good. And I’m very passionate about it, I’m very vocal about breaking the glass ceiling and women being in higher management positions, It shouldn’t be limited to only men or only women of – Caucasian women, for instance, there shouldn’t be any discrimination of any sort. South Indian women, women who look like us should also have the same opportunity. I’m very passionate about that and that’s what motivates me.
Did you have any unpleasant experiences or were there instances where you sat in a meeting and thought, “Why aren’t more people like me present here?”
Growing up my parents were very progressive when it came to studies and career. They had two daughters and my parents didn’t hold any barrier for us to dream about what we wanted to do. I have to give them credit that they injected a lot of the ambition to pursue big carrier opportunities in me. But I didn’t see many women around me have these big ambitions or want to be in certain roles or want to climb the corporate ladder. Because they were probably not brought up in the same environment. After I started working, I found myself in the minority again. I was probably, even in Singapore, I was probably the only Indian woman in many work meetings. I work in the construction sector, a field that is male dominant and if you look for females of South Asian descent in leadership roles, there are not many of us present.
So your focus on Instagram is to talk about the things that matter. And the way I see it, some topics are easier to talk about like investing vs some topics like having children, which are taboo. And you have said you have your own conservative tendencies because that’s how you lived for over 20 years. So before you hit the post button when you’ve written something so controversial, does that get in the way and if so how do you find the courage and the determination to put them out anyway?
Good question! I start writing a post only when I am comfortable and confident to talk about it. There are topics that I still don’t find the courage to write. Sometimes on social media content creators can find themselves in the midst of a mad rush. You see a certain type of content do well, especially talking on taboo does well. And you want to keep talking more about it because you want to have more engagement. But I stop, I pause and I reflect “Am I ready to talk about it?” It takes a lot of mental energy to write and engage on taboo topics, so my personal mental health and readiness play a big part in what I choose to share. Whenever I’m ready, I feel the words come to me naturally, I can articulate it well and I am not afraid of any backlash that may come with it.
Do you have any tips for someone who is also conservative or a little shy to start talking about topics like this – it doesn’t even have to be on Instagram, there are so many women who are shy to talk about some of the topics you have talked about to their own friend because it can be very difficult. The way I see it, certain topics, only conversation can move things forward and I think it’s necessary to have conversation on that. So do you have any suggestions for that?
That’s a great point. Conversations are not easy, it’s easier to write on Instagram. It’s harder to talk about it. And I would say, as the first step you need to be strong in what you believe in. You need to have your own opinions or your own stand on what you think is right. Start with discussing these topics with friends. With your closest family, for instance, your parents, they are the hardest group to have a healthy debate as they have completely different opinions. Let’s assume they want to get you married by a certain age and you strongly believe that “No, now is not the time.” Have your reasons and perspectives ready and start the conversation small. First try to understand their position about why they are saying certain things, a certain way. Ask the question “Why?”, for instance in our previous example ask them “Why should I get married now?”. If they respond that it’s what the society expects us to do, ask why again “Why should I do this for the society and not myself?”. It’s harder for them to see a different perspective as they are brought up in a certain way. I’ve tried with my parents and it takes such a long time. I still don’t know if they fully understand. Start small, ask questions, put forth your perspective calmly and don’t expect that they would change overnight. They might never change. And you should be comfortable with that as well.
The other thing based on my personal experiences is that, I think as children of South Asian parents, we seek a lot of validation from them. For us to disagree with our parents feels like a failure. It felt like that for me. I think it’s important for us to understand that it’s not a failure. You are your own person, and they are their own person. How they grew up shaped their ideals, how we grew up shaped ours. So it’s okay to not agree on everything. That will help our mental health a lot.
It’s actually my next question and you got there on your own! Because when I was looking through your Instagram posts, I noticed you have a post about how your parents are now on Instagram and you made an entire post saying you’re an adult now, you can make your own decisions, so Appa, Amma, please don’t come after me about this. And I found that so funny because I’m single now and I thought it would get better if I get married. But you’re saying the same things as I do!
Some things might get better if you’re married but you can’t change them fundamentally!
Yeah so I was going to ask you how do you negotiate with your parents and you got there by yourself. Even living in different countries was it a serious discussion you have to have with your parents? Because I think we have similar parents where for a girl to go and do it, it’s like “Oh my god no!” For a boy it is fine. And to be in countries like Vietnam by yourself without being married is even more challenging. So how did you have that conversation with your parents?
So the one thing about my parents was that they were happy to send me anywhere for studies or work. Or to better my life in that sense. I made all the decisions for Vietnam without consulting them and just told them as a matter of fact! I was kind of like this, even while growing up. I used to make my own decisions a lot and my mum had a tough time with me. So they know that I’m a bit stubborn but I was also very independent from a young age. This gave them the confidence that I will manage by myself. So they were fine. But if I had asked them, they probably wouldn’t have said yes to Vietnam. I made all my decisions, I applied for the visas and that’s when I told them I’m going to Vietnam for the next 6 months. 😊
Yeah because the visa is already there! What are you going to do? Throw away the visa? I want to ask you next about the conservative people who follow or rather are just there to leave nosy aunty comments. I think some of them also don’t realise they’re violating a boundary. That it’s not okay to ask a woman “When are you going to have kids?” because that’s the way they were raised as well. And I noticed you say “If you don’t like what I put out, just unfollow me.” quite a bit as well. It’s quite easy to say that but do they actually get to you and how do you bounce back from that?
To be honest, I don’t have too many of them. I’ve probably gotten a few comments here and there. It’s not on a daily basis for sure. I would like to think that my community on Instagram is of likeminded people to a large extent. But the few times I get it, it’s funny for me. I take it in a lighter way and sometimes when I post screenshots of it, some people also reply saying “You should have been harsher! It’s not okay for people to say these things!”. My perspective is I won’t gain anything just by getting angry or being too harsh with that person. But I definitely post about it because I don’t want anyone else to ask the same questions. I want to show people that it’s not right. But I don’t let it affect me so much because there’s nothing I gain out of that. Most of the time I try to respond back to the person with something courteous. And sometimes I just ignore, because there is no way something good will come out of that conversation. So why should I waste my energy?
So your profile has two words “positivity” and “courage”. Why did you choose them?
Good question! Actually, I spent some time thinking about it. I believe those 2 words represent me and intentionally I want them to represent me. I’m on a journey as well and still working on my positivity and being more courageous in my choices. So I think those 2 stood out the most for me in terms of how I want to define myself and my page. Because my page is an extension of me.
To set the tone basically about who you are then.
Yeah. To even myself!
So it’s like a reminder? Like a compass when you post something I guess.
Absolutely!
So have you always been this brazen with your life? Especially before you just went to Paris. In what ways are you similar or different from that girl? And what would you tell her?
Good question. I have always felt like I didn’t fit in, irrespective of where I was. People around me thought differently, had different dreams and there were sometimes in my life when I would feel very alone. Because there was nobody else I could connect with at that level. As I grew up, I just got used to the fact that I will never fit in. And the one thing I will tell the girl who was 16 and wondered “Why do I have to think so differently, or have these different views on life?” that It’s okay. “You will never fit in and that’s fine. You just have to get comfortable with who you are and you will still be able to connect with people but not on every level. I think when I was in college I used to look at best friends who would do everything together. They will be so in tune in everything they did. I was never able to find someone like that because I’ll inevitably end up questioning something or the other. I’m probably still that person. The exception to the rule is my husband now, having been with him for 10 years, I think I’ve just got comfortable with that notion that I might never fit in 100%. It’s okay to stand out and just be open to new experiences. And just go with the flow. I’m not a big planner.
I thought you were a planner! I thought that’s how you went to so many countries!
No! No! I’m more of a going with a flow kind of person. I just take opportunities which come up and even now. My husband and I were discussing “In 10 years, where will we be?”. We have no clue!! That’s exciting for us. Of course, the exception to this is financial planning where we are pretty organized, as it allows us to feel the true freedom of living in the moment.
Okay, that’s kind of interesting because I wanted to know if it’s your international living experiences that opened up your eyes a little more or if that was who you were already back in the school days in Erode and Coimbatore.
It definitely opened me up. Don’t get me wrong. It was a very critical part of finding myself and what I believe in, but I was questioning conventions even when I was back home.. Very simple example - Heterosexuality. I used to question why should people be attracted to the opposite gender?
Wow!
I remember this clearly from my 9th grade. But I never voiced it out. I never talked about it because nobody else questioned it! So when I moved out of India and got exposed to a lot more happening around the world, it was a validation of some sort that what I was questioning was not wrong. So that made me more confident and believe in myself and my instincts.
The validation that your instincts are right! That’s very interesting! What would you like to be known for?
As someone who lives her life in her own terms and doesn’t let society or someone else dictate how to live her life. I want to be known for this and take people along on the journey and show people that it’s okay to do that. To defy societal constructs and live the way you want – whatever that means for you.
Do you think you’re a 100% brazen now or do you think there’s more for you to go?
Definitely more! There’s definitely more! I think it’s a journey and I’m not at the end of the journey yet. As with new experiences, as my life grows, I’ll find more avenues in which I will be courageous in my decisions. I think it’s a lifelong journey and there are still areas of my life where I feel I’m still following certain expectations and have to break out of it. I will go with the flow, see where it takes me and be authentic and genuine to myself.
I love that answer. What does the word “tenacity” mean to you?
Tenacity to me is a synonym for women. Whether you’re a corporate woman or a stay at home mum or stay at home wife, whatever role you play as a woman, everyone challenges certain things in their life. Every woman irrespective of where she goes or what she ends up doing challenges things. If you take my grandmother for instance. She got married at the age of 17. But before she got married, she wanted to become a teacher. She was the first in her family so my great grandfather couldn’t afford to let her study because I think there were 10 or 12 people behind her. It was just not possible for him to do that. But she made her stand. She starved for 3 days and said, “I can’t get married.” They got her married but she stood up, right? And because she stood up one of her sisters is now a doctor. What she did had an impact on her sister’s education. That’s how I think every woman, whether she knows it or not, whether she consciously does it or not, has an impact. She’s challenging the ideals that she can. I think women are synonym to tenacity. Every one of us is tenacious.
WOW! That makes so much sense about how you’re able to volunteer yourself as a tenacious woman while most of us feel shy to do so!
All of our stories have a huge impact. I received a comment sometime back on my profile saying the stories I share of other women is just normal. They’re leading very normal lives and I shouldn’t be glorifying them. To me, every story is glorious. Whether you become the CEO of PepsiCo or you’re staying at home and managing your own household, it doesn’t matter. It doesn’t define whether your story is better than someone else’s. That’s why more women should be comfortable in their own skin and their own journey. Because we don’t have to achieve something to call ourselves tenacious or any of these adjectives. Every woman has a story and it needs to be told.
Do you have any tips then to get to that frame of mind where you’re like “There’s value in my story!” rather than shrinking ourselves? Because I think women do that, we shrink ourselves a lot.
We do. I think for anything the first step would be to understand that you’re doing that. To recognise that you’re actually shrinking yourself or your self-confidence or that you’re projecting yourself in a certain way. It all begins with wanting to change. If we whole-heartedly wanted to change, we will find ways to do that. Everyone has a different way of coming to that position. My journey and what I did may not be relatable for everybody. They can’t just apply that in their lives. So be aware of how you’re projecting yourself. When you think about yourself, what comes to your mind? Are you thinking about all the things you are not good at or how you love yourself for being this amazing person? Reflect, take that mirror inwards and see what you want to change in there and go from there.
What advice would you give to the woman trying to find her passion or niche?
I would say just keep trying. Believe in yourself. Don’t limit based on what society has defined as success or as a successful career for instance. The reason I did engineering was also driven by the same societal construct. I was a good student, so my options were limited to Medicine or Engineering. There is a lot of emphasis that these are the only ways to succeed in life. Break away from that. You will know instinctually that you are attracted to and good at certain things like Fashion, Interior decoration, Accounting, Arts, Theatre, Sales etc. Go with your gut, try out a few experiences, don’t put yourself in a box and just believe in yourself. You can be successful in any career you choose and I think we have enough examples to show that. You can be successful in anything you put your heart and soul into, so just experience life and give it a go.
You can learn more about Shmruthi through her Instagram or her website!
*Subscribe to my monthly newsletter, "Thendral's Telegraph" here!*
